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June 30, 2004

Comments

Sensemaker

>"THE MORE LOSERS WE HAVE IN AMERICA THE BETTER IT IS FOR THE DEMOCRATS, SO NATURALLY THEIR POLICIES ARE AIMED AT KEEPING LOSERS AS LOSERS."

Nonsense. Progressive taxation is a neccesary corrective to prevent the degenerate concentration of wealth and power that is the natural consequence of the capitalist system of economic incentives.

It's foolish to believe that possession of socially-created fiat money is somehow "inviolate." Paper money would be worthless if not for the presumed intrinsic value of the society whose government issues that money.

America has been most economically vigorous when the rich get soaked.

Nice hat.

Adrian Spidle

Nonsense. Progressive taxation is a neccesary corrective to prevent the degenerate concentration of wealth and power that is the natural consequence of the capitalist system of economic incentives.

WOW! WHAT A GREAT RESPONSE! THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF ENQUIRY I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR. MY FRIEND, INTEGRATION OF THE TRUTH YOU SEE WITH THE TRUTH I SEE, WHEN IT OCCURS IN AMERICA, WILL MARK THE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST ERA OF MATURITY. NOTE WELL, WHAT I THINK IS EVERY BIT AS TRUE AS WHAT YOU THINK, AS DIFFERENT AS THEY ARE.

It's foolish to believe that possession of socially-created fiat money is somehow "inviolate." Paper money would be worthless if not for the presumed intrinsic value of the society whose government issues that money.

OBVIOUSLY TRUE. MY OBJECTION IS THE WAY YOU DEMOCRATS FORCE ME AND MINE, AT THE POINT OF A GUN, TO BUY INTO YOUR NARROW VISION.

America has been most economically vigorous when the rich get soaked.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE BULL TO ME. HAVE YOU DATA TO SUPPORT THAT?

Nice hat.

YOU SHOULD SEE THE ONE I JUST BOUGHT AT CABELA'S IN HAMBURG, PA.

Posted by: Sensemaker

THANKS FOR YOUR POST. THE QUESTION IS

"ARE YOU INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO INCORPORATE MY WORLD VIEW INTO YOUR SO THAT WE CAN AGREE ON OVERALL POLICY?

ADRIAN

Ben

does the trickle down work? I know there are 4 things my boss would do if he started getting a dollar more every time something I did made him money.

he'd keep it,
he'd give it to me,
he'd hire someone new,
or he'd improve the store.

the way the economy is right now, I couldn't see expanding. We have enough people, full productivity, no overtime hours for anyone, so he wouldn't hire someone new. So he'd either keep it, or give it to me.


which would you do?

Adrian Spidle

does the trickle down work?

YES

I know there are 4 things my boss would do if he started getting a dollar more every time something I did made him money.

he'd keep it,
he'd give it to me,
he'd hire someone new,
or he'd improve the store.

the way the economy is right now, I couldn't see expanding. We have enough people, full productivity, no overtime hours for anyone, so he wouldn't hire someone new. So he'd either keep it, or give it to me.


which would you do?

AS A FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS OWNER, I'D DO A LITTLE OF EACH.

Posted by: Ben

THANKS FOR ASKING, BEN.

ADRIAN

PurpleStater

Adrian,

The view that the goal of the Democrats is to "keep the losers as losers" as a means of staying in power is one that is commonly heard from people on the right, especially callers to right-wing talk shows. As someone who has voted Democrat most of his life and now finds himself having to take Republican arguments seriously, I have to tell you in all honesty that conservatives never come off looking good when they propose this caricature of liberal thinking. It is analogous to the equally off-base liberal caricature of Republicans as "the party of the rich" who dupe the common working folks into buying into their agenda by appealing to church, flag and country.

Democrats believe that countries like the US, which have a tremendous amount of wealth and opportunity, owe it to the the least powerful in our society to attempt to address social problems and help them get a leg up. You can argue with the means they frequently propose for achieving that, i.e. higher tax rates for the have-mores to fund government programs for the have-nots. Or you can deride the group identity politics that seem to pervade the Democratic party at every level (as though Republicans are not beholden to their own interest groups). I am certainly not saying there is not a critique to be made of Demcratic ecconomic policies, which at their worst create inefficient bureacracies and burdensome regulations.

But I think it's always the best approach to take your opponent's motives as stated, rather than attempting to infer some hidden agenda. Just as Republicans really believe they are about limiting the excesses of government and promoting individual economic freedom and opportunity, Democrats really believe they are about using the power of government to help people overcome poverty and other social ills. An enlightened society needs a constructive tension between both points of view, along with policy-makers who are willing to honestly acknowledge which policies are truly successful at achieving their stated goals.

Posted by: PurpleStater

Adrian Spidle

...But I think it's always the best approach to take your opponent's motives as stated, rather than attempting to infer some hidden agenda. Just as Republicans really believe they are about limiting the excesses of government and promoting individual economic freedom and opportunity, Democrats really believe they are about using the power of government to help people overcome poverty and other social ills. An enlightened society needs a constructive tension between both points of view, along with policy-makers who are willing to honestly acknowledge which policies are truly successful at achieving their stated goals.

Posted by: PurpleStater

YOU EMBARRASS ME, PS. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. SOMETIMES I GET CARRIED AWAY BY THE HEAT OF THE DEBATE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS CRAZY ELECTION SEASON.

YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG. FROM NOW ON I'LL STRIVE TO FURTHER DEBATE AND AVOID INSULT, IF THE LEFT DOES THE SAME.

ADRIAN

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