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June 14, 2004

Comments

Skippy

I guess you are not e believer in cause and effect. Whatever goes around comes around. Of course, in this country we cannot torture prisoners to extract information from them. Even if we did, most often they will give you bogus information just to stop the torture. The same thing happens in war time. Have you lost all sense of humanity? The soldiers that we tortured in Iraq didn't have any worthwhile information. Do you want to run the risk of torturing innocent people? There's a word for people like this - sociopath!

Adrian Spidle

I guess you are not e believer in cause and effect.

YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CAUSE AND EFFECT.

Whatever goes around comes around.

THAT'S KHARMA, NOT CAUSE AND EFFECT. I DO BELIEVE IN KHARMA AND I'M WILLING TO BE ITS INSTRUMENT.

Of course, in this country we cannot torture prisoners to extract information from them.

IN THIS WAR, THAT IS STUPID.

Even if we did, most often they will give you bogus information just to stop the torture.

THIS IS BOGUS.

The same thing happens in war time.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WARTIME? DO YOU KNOW HOW TO WIN A WAR?

Have you lost all sense of humanity?

NO.

The soldiers that we tortured in Iraq didn't have any worthwhile information.

1 - WE DIDN'T TORTURE THEM, WE EMBARRASED THEM.

2 - HUMILIATION IS A LEGITIMATE TACTIC IN WAR.

Do you want to run the risk of torturing innocent people?

I DON'T THINK THAT TO BE VERY LIKELY, YET I AM WILLING TO DO IT IF IT WILL SAVE AMERICAN OR INNOCENT IRAQI LIVES.

...
Posted by: Skippy

Skippy

Karma IS Cause and Effect. But I realize it is worthless to argue with you as you will simply get angry and disagree with me regardless of what I say or how convincing an argument I might put up.

Austin

It struck me as odd that, while the world expressed outrage at the abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison, the protagonists in the popular TV show "24" were clearly using torture and horrific threats to obtain information. Yet no outrage was noted. Somehow, it seemed acceptable. Was it the sense of angst and regret in "doing their job" that made this different?

I am not convinced that what happened at Abu Ghraid was torture for war purposes. I think it was gratuitous and unnecessary abuse. But I think it was the sick "fun" on the part of the soldiers that this made it so shocking. It was not part of the war effort.

And I think this confuses the debate on torture in war and makes it more difficult to answer the question, where do we draw the line? At what point does interrogation become torture?

Adrian Spidle

It struck me as odd that, while the world expressed outrage at the abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison, the protagonists in the popular TV show "24" were clearly using torture and horrific threats to obtain information. Yet no outrage was noted. Somehow, it seemed acceptable. Was it the sense of angst and regret in "doing their job" that made this different?

HEY AUSTIN, MY FRIEND, YOU ARE RIGHT. THIS SCANDAL IS PURE POLITICS AND CAN REALLY HURT US ALL.

I am not convinced that what happened at Abu Ghraid was torture for war purposes. I think it was gratuitous and unnecessary abuse.

MAYBE. BUT IT ALSO COULD HAVE BEEN SOFTENING UP, WHICH IS LEGITIMATE IN MY EYES.

But I think it was the sick "fun" on the part of the soldiers that this made it so shocking. It was not part of the war effort.

PERHAPS.

And I think this confuses the debate on torture in war and makes it more difficult to answer the question, where do we draw the line? At what point does interrogation become torture?

Posted by: Austin

THESE ARE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT DESERVE AN ADULT DEBATE.

ADRIAN

alfredjames

It seems to me that everyone is approaching the issue of torture from a western perspective. If this is not so, how come all the advanced Arab countries, lets say Eqypt, Jordan, Pakistan, you name your favorited Middle eastern country, uses torture to keep order.

I do not believe that westerners understand the arab culture. They are poor, uneducated, and very tribal.

I spoke to an Egpytian immigrant friend, and he is amazed by our culture. He is most amazed by our simple ability to disagree. I looked at him with a puzzedled look and he emphatically said that in his country that I would have to agree with him, he kept repeating himself, until I got the picture, simply said, I got the feeling that one of us would be dead if we did not agree. So it sounds like full agreement or death are their alternatives. I guess torture is a half way point.

Adrian Spidle

I spoke to an Egpytian immigrant friend, and he is amazed by our culture. He is most amazed by our simple ability to disagree. I looked at him with a puzzedled look ... So it sounds like full agreement or death are their alternatives. I guess torture is a half way point.

Posted by: alfredjames

GREAT POST, AL. OUR AMERICAN LIBERALS HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HOW LUCKY THEY ARE TO BE IN AMERICA.

ADRIAN

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